Any interest in a guy who's a) led his team deep into the playoffs for the last three years, b) has a strong Minnesota connection, c) shouldn't have been fired as Wolves coach in the first place, and d) is a demonstrably better coach than Randy Wittman?

Flip wouldn't come back here anyway, after the way he was treated by McFail and Taylor. We're stuck with Wittman, I'm afraid.

 

The reality is that Flip would only be a temporary fix anyway. He's proven that he's not an elite coach. He'd be a definite upgrade over Wittless, and would be great for the next 3 years or so, but after that they'd have to go get an elite level coach that is able to coach at a championship level.

 With that being said... I'd take Flip over Wittless any day of any week.
 

 A guy known for a finesse-based, complicated, jump-shooting offense is not what a team needs when said team is trying to define itself on the simplicity and power of a low-post game.

Why exactly is Flip not an elite coach again? Define elite coach?

 

Is it winning %? Flip has 5th highest % of any active coach.

Playoff success? The Celtics are going to the Finals..is Doc rivers suddenly and elite coach dispite the fact that his career playtoff win % is actually worse than Flip? So if the Piston's had beaten the Celtics Flip would now be elite?

Coach at a "championship level" Oh so you want to go out and get say Mike Brown ,Avery Johnson? They have coached at a championship level. They must be much better coaches than Flip right?

I doubt Flip has any interest in going back to the Wolves but to put him down as some kind of failure at an elite level because he's not been to the finals is baseless. Unless of course you consider Doc Rivers, Mike Brown and Avery (failed in the first round the last 2 years) Johnson elite.

 

Toolatecrew:

Why exactly is Flip not an elite coach again? Define elite coach?

 

Is it winning %? Flip has 5th highest % of any active coach.

Playoff success? The Celtics are going to the Finals..is Doc rivers suddenly and elite coach dispite the fact that his career playtoff win % is actually worse than Flip? So if the Piston's had beaten the Celtics Flip would now be elite?

Coach at a "championship level" Oh so you want to go out and get say Mike Brown ,Avery Johnson? They have coached at a championship level. They must be much better coaches than Flip right?

I doubt Flip has any interest in going back to the Wolves but to put him down as some kind of failure at an elite level because he's not been to the finals is baseless. Unless of course you consider Doc Rivers, Mike Brown and Avery (failed in the first round the last 2 years) Johnson elite.

 

Flip has never coached a team beyond their expectations. His teams have generally always performed either exactly as they were expected or slightly worse. Flip took over a championship caliber team and never returned to the championship game. It appears that he let his team become complacent.

I'm not trying to slam him. I still like him and hope that someday he wins a ring. I hope he gets one long before KG (of course the only way I want to see KG get one is if he somehow returned to the Wolves). But the simple fact is that Flip's teams have always performed as they were expected. So no, he's not a "failure" and I never said he was. But neither is he an elite level coach that is able to get his teams to perform at a championship level ...even when they have championship level talent, as they did this year. I thought Detroit was going to win it all this year.

So defend him all you want, but his inability to get his teams over the hump falls on his shoulders. That's the coaches job. 

Chaos:

Toolatecrew:

Why exactly is Flip not an elite coach again? Define elite coach?

 

Is it winning %? Flip has 5th highest % of any active coach.

Playoff success? The Celtics are going to the Finals..is Doc rivers suddenly and elite coach dispite the fact that his career playtoff win % is actually worse than Flip? So if the Piston's had beaten the Celtics Flip would now be elite?

Coach at a "championship level" Oh so you want to go out and get say Mike Brown ,Avery Johnson? They have coached at a championship level. They must be much better coaches than Flip right?

I doubt Flip has any interest in going back to the Wolves but to put him down as some kind of failure at an elite level because he's not been to the finals is baseless. Unless of course you consider Doc Rivers, Mike Brown and Avery (failed in the first round the last 2 years) Johnson elite.

 

Flip has never coached a team beyond their expectations. His teams have generally always performed either exactly as they were expected or slightly worse. Flip took over a championship caliber team and never returned to the championship game. It appears that he let his team become complacent.

I'm not trying to slam him. I still like him and hope that someday he wins a ring. I hope he gets one long before KG (of course the only way I want to see KG get one is if he somehow returned to the Wolves). But the simple fact is that Flip's teams have always performed as they were expected. So no, he's not a "failure" and I never said he was. But neither is he an elite level coach that is able to get his teams to perform at a championship level ...even when they have championship level talent, as they did this year. I thought Detroit was going to win it all this year.

So defend him all you want, but his inability to get his teams over the hump falls on his shoulders. That's the coaches job. 

 

Beyond Who's expectaions is he supposed to get his team ..yours?

NBA.com had 9 experts make preaseason predictions 1of 9 predicted the Pistons in the Finals and only 3 of 9 even predicted they would win their Division. So how is making the ECF and going to 6 games not "exceeding expactaions?

You still address the whole "elite level coaches" getting to the Finals thing.

Is Avery Johnson an elite level coach becuase he got to the Finals 3 years ago or is he a failure becuase he got the same Finals teram bounced out the first round 2 years in a row?  If you reach thwe finals once are you always an elite coach?

Is Doc Rivers now an elite coach? Yes or no?

Is Avery Johnson and Elite coach yes or no?

Is Mike Brown and Elite coach yes or no?

By your definition these are the elite coaches of the last 10 years

Pop

Jackson

Mike Brown

Avery Johnson

Larry Brown

Pat Riley (SVG is not an Elite Coah becuase Riley took over the coaching before SVG could make it to the Finals)

Byron Scott

Larry Bird

JVG

Jerry Sloan

Interesting.

Avery Johnson took his team to the Finals and then allowed them to exit in the first round the next 2 years. So is he elite or a failure?

Getting a team over the "hump"s a coaches job. Intersting so the Pistons gouing from the ECF to a championship was bacuse of Larry Brown getting them over the hump and NOT the trade for Sheed? The Celtics making one of the greatest single season turnarounds was due to Doc River's coaching and not the addition of KG and Ray allen? The Spurs going from 20-62 under Popavich to a Championship is due to the same coach gettin/not getting them over the hump.

Its absurd isn't it? By far the majority of people expected the Pistons to go into major decilne this year but they really didn't but you want to BLAME Flip for them not meeting expectations? Interestting. Just becuase you thought the Pistons would win it all is hardley a failure of Flip tp meet your unreasonable expecations. I think the only other people I could find that Predicted a Pistons Championship are Chad Ford and Maybe Deniro

 

 TooLateCrew, I said one simple thing; that Flip has never taken teams beyond where they were expected to go and then you just took it from there and fabricated everything else. Not once did I say that getting to the Finals makes a coach an elite level coach. I didn't even imply that. I don't believe that I compared him to any other coaches such as Doc Rivers or Avery Johnson. It's pretty obvious that you are one of the posters from a site that shall remain nameless that just likes to argue and make up things up to support your argument. Go back to where you came from.

I'm not about to sit here and argue with you about matters of opinion. Is there anything more futile than that? Especially when you aren't even arguing my opinion, but rather you exaggeration of my opinion.

Again, I like Flip. I still hope that he can become an elite level coach and find a way to motivate his teams to that next level. I still hope that he wins a championship before KG. However, I still haven't seen him take one single team that he has coached and take them beyone where they were supposed to finish.

 As a matter-of-fact, he took the championship level Pistons and was never able to get the same production and result with almost the exact same starting 5. So of course the acquisition of Rasheed was a major factor. Again, you're focusing more on arguing than actually listening and trying understand someone else's opinion, because that point, in my mind, supports my assertion that Flip is not an elite level coach. With the addition of Wallace, Brown was able to take that team and win a Championship. With that same team (including Wallace) Flip was not... and had several opportunities.

Now before you come back and say "So winning the title is your only barometer of an elite coach?". Of course not. If the Pistons were expected to be a horrible team and not make the playoffs, but then went and made the playoffs and even advanced to second round or something, then that would be a case of him getting his team to play beyond their expectations. However, that's not the case. The Pistons were expected to be a playoff team. They were expected to compete for the championship. Sure there are people/sites that disagree on exactly what they predicted, but they all agree that they were a playoff team and most agree that at the very least should make it to the conference finals. They did, but that's all.

The simple fact is that Joe Dumars obviously see's it exactly as I do, otherwise Flip would still be with the Pistons. When you have a team with that much talent, you are expected to win. You are expected to be challenging for the championship every year and if you aren't... then you've failed. Does some of the blame fall on the players? Of course, but this is basically the same group that won the title in 2004? Did they get complacent? It appears so ...but isn't that what Flips job is; to not let complacency set in and to help keep their eye on the prize? Isn't that a major part of what coaching is? So what was Brown able to get from them that Flip couldn't? I don't know. But the fact is that Brown was able to get them over the hump and Flip was not.
 

Chaos:

 TooLateCrew, I said one simple thing; that Flip has never taken teams beyond where they were expected to go and then you just took it from there and fabricated everything else. Not once did I say that getting to the Finals makes a coach an elite level coach. I didn't even imply that. I

 

You didn't ..you mean you did not say this?

"He'd be a definite upgrade over Wittless, and would be great for the next 3 years or so, but after that they'd have to go get an elite level coach that is able to coach at a championship level."

Elite Coach CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL. How else is any one else to interpert this other than Flip isn't going to get them to a CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL. Therefore you have to get an"Elite coach" that will get them to a championship level. Well since Flip hasn't gotten a team to a Finals what can an Elite coach accomplish that Flip hasn't? GET TO THE FINALS!!

You can dance around it all you want. You belive that you need a better coach than Flip to reach the Finals (Championship level whatever). Therefore you equate the difference between Flip and an Elite coach as FINALS/Championship level.

 

As to what website I came from I've been here for many many years same user name same style welcome to Hoopsworld.

 Jesus... you can try to spin it anyway you want and pick out small bits of what I've said instead of looking at the big picture, if you like.

Let me state this very clearly (again), I do not believe Flip is an elite level coach because he has NEVER had his teams finish beyond where they are supposed to. Whether that was a 30 win team or a 50 win team, whether that was a lottery team or a finals worthy team.

Flip is a good coach, much better than what we've seen from Wittless. However, up to this point we have seen that his coaching is limited. He let the Wolves get complacent and lost that team and now he let the Pistons get complacent and lost that team. Would I like to see him back with the Wolves? Hell yeah. And I would hope and pray that he would be able to improve on his coaching and become an elite level coach, thus continuing to improve each year and have his team excel and play better each year ...all the way to the Championship. 

But up to this point there is nothing in his resume that says that he is able to do that. His teams have not got better. His teams have not stepped up their games when it really mattered, they have just simply played to their expectations. So yes, one part of being an elite level coach is the ability to coach at a championship level, but that's just a part of it (the part that apparently has you stuck like a deer in the headlights). But there are other facets too.

I'm not trying to slam him. Again, I really like him; he's "one of us". I'm just keeping it real. I think because he's one of us, fans tend to exaggerate how good he is. Remember he's coached two teams in the NBA and neither of those two teams have done anything special with him in charge. Granted you could make the case that after the Wolves let him go, they have never been the same, but then you'd be ignoring the fact that it was with him when the free fall started. With the Pistons, they were not just a championship caliber team prior to his arrival... they were the Champions! His first year, they returned to the Finals and were beat. Since then they haven't returned. That's what's called getting worse, not better. I just don't believe, to this point, that he has proven he's an elite level coach. Apparently you do. That's fine. But apparently Joe Dumars agree's with me. I'm comfortable with my side of this debate.

Toolatecrew:

 

As to what website I came from I've been here for many many years same user name same style welcome to Hoopsworld.

You do realize that it says right over there on the left when you joined, right?

Chaos:

Toolatecrew:

 

As to what website I came from I've been here for many many years same user name same style welcome to Hoopsworld.

You do realize that it says right over there on the left when you joined, right?

Yes it says when you joined the new board after the last (of about one zillion resets) what's your point?

 

Toolatecrew:

Chaos:

Toolatecrew:

 

As to what website I came from I've been here for many many years same user name same style welcome to Hoopsworld.

You do realize that it says right over there on the left when you joined, right?

Yes it says when you joined the new board after the last (of about one zillion resets) what's your point?

***yawn***

Chaos:

Toolatecrew:

 

As to what website I came from I've been here for many many years same user name same style welcome to Hoopsworld.

You do realize that it says right over there on the left when you joined, right?

 

 

More like -

 

Toolatecrew:

Chaos:

Toolatecrew:

 

As to what website I came from I've been here for many many years same user name same style welcome to Hoopsworld.

You do realize that it says right over there on the left when you joined, right?

Yes it says when you joined the new board after the last (of about one zillion resets) what's your point?

 

Yet, Chaos' join date is 4/22......why didn't his date reset to 4/23?  Hmmmmm, THAT one's a dilly of a pickle, now in't it????   

Listen carefully children. I've been posting here for years. After the last reset I took some time off and didn't re-register until lately. Believe what you want. Just ask any of the regular members ..but you might want to do it in a PM to avoid embarrassment.

I'm going to be 19 years old next month and I've been arguing with 2LC since I was a Freshman in high school.

 I have a question; who cares? I was just simply pointing it out. Whether you are lying or not is of no consequence to me.

It doesn't change the fact that Flip is NOT an elite level coach.

DeNiro:

I'm going to be 19 years old next month and I've been arguing with 2LC since I was a Freshman in high school.

 

You're going to be 20-year old Sophomore? 

Jamebo Jackson:

DeNiro:

I'm going to be 19 years old next month and I've been arguing with 2LC since I was a Freshman in high school.

 

You're going to be 20-year old Sophomore? 

Yeah, sophomore in college.

This message board has been reset roughly 7,692,854 times. TooLateCrew has been a Hoopsworld regular for years.

Chaos:

Toolatecrew:

 

As to what website I came from I've been here for many many years same user name same style welcome to Hoopsworld.

You do realize that it says right over there on the left when you joined, right?

 

Just an FYI, TLC has been here for a good 5-6 years now.