Bill Ingram:

 Rafer shot 44% from the field and the arch in the playoffs, when it matters most. Tony Parker shot just 35% from three . . .Rajon Rondo 25% . . .I supposed we could go team-by-team, but that's really a waste of time.

Here's what matters. The Rockets GM and VP of Ops love what Alston brings to the table and are more focused on the center position and getting Landry and Dorsey signed than thinking about a point guard. When you have Tracy McGrady and Ron Artest helping out with the ball handling it makes Rafer that much more effective. So what do you do? Trade McGrady to get Billups?

You'll never win a stats argument because stats lie as much as they tell the truth depending on which games you pick for your argument (as TooLate demonstrated). The real question is who can you get that's better and what do you sacrifice. THAT discussion quickly arrives at Alston being the best PG for the Rockets.
 

He shot 44% from 3 in the playoffs when it mattered most? Elimination game 6 he was 2-7 2 assits and 2 turnovers and they lose the series. Game 4 he's 6 for 18 What was the outcome of the playoff series? They won 2 games

You compare his 3 point % to Parker and Rondo ? Two guys who are know to be non shooters from 3...two guys who rarley shoot 3s becuase they know they can't make them? Tony Parker when of the highest % shooting PGs in the NBA who's also one of the leaders in points in the paint?

I really doubt they "love" what Alston brings to the table but he's they best thing they have becuase Toronto couldn't wait to dump the mistake they made with him . He makes less than the MLE so he's fairly cheap . But lets not confuse being stuck with PG not being the weakest link on the team. The Nuggest have Anthony Carter for 1.3 M and are happy with what he brings but don't for one second think they woudn't kill for an upgrade.

You guys have made several staments that aren't being defended :

Alston is the best of 2nd tier PGs in the NBA (including Billups, Calderon Baron Davis) that's rediculous.

Alston is not a terrible shooter. He's one of the owrst shooting PGs in the NBA and has been for years.

I'm simply point out the outrageousness of this.

I totally disagree that Houston MGT is focusing on Center and PF signings becuase they are happy and content with Alston. They are doing so becuase its about all they can control.  Now that they have Artest and Battier at the 2/3 they absoultley could trade TMac for Billups and be better. But they CAN"T do that becuase Billups makes 11M and TMAc makes 21 M .

The argument has been made that Alston is BETTER for the Rockets than any other PG outside of the cream of the crop guys in the NBA and its simply not true. He's the best thing they have and that's the whole point. He's not good enough and pairing him with Tmac and Artest and reliving him of ball handeling does not really incrase his effectivness. He's not a bad ball handler. He's not a great ballhandler (turnover and decsion wise) but certainly not bad. But if you turn playmaking over to Artest and TMac what does that do to Alston? Turns him into a shooter at which he's terrible. Last year in 7 playoff games he shot 34% from the floor and 32% from 3. 4 games this year of 44% are simply not indcative of what you can expect from him. You can't expect him to maintain even that mediocre overall shooting for a whole series let alone an entire playoffs.

He's not a good fit but he's what they have. They do have bigger problems than PG simply becuase their two starrs who take up 3/4 of the CAP are majorly injury prone. If Yao gets hurt agian they are done they can't win a ring.

T-mac's already relied on to do too much playmaking. Replacing Alston with Derek Fisher would only make that problem bigger. Why do you think Luther Head never started?

Houston wants a player starting beside T-mac that can get the offense started quickly. Rafer fits that bill, plus he's a low-turnover player. Shooting isn't his strength, & I don't expect playing with more scoring options to increase his percentages next year. But hopefully it'll bring his shot attempts down, which is the one area he really hurts us. But as far as getting the other 4 guys involved - there isn't a whole lot you can complain about.

It's funny that people think Rafer's not much of a defender, btw. Ric Adelman, Jeff Van Gundy and Daryl Morey would disagree. But even if we ignore that TLC....Houston's been top3 in the league in defense the past 2 seasons. Who do you think is the reason for that? You say Rafer's a poor defender, so who are all these defensive stalwarts that still manage to make Houston an ELITE defensive squad despite having such a weaklink out there? Battier's the only Rocket to make All-NBA.

Bill Ingram laid it out perfectly. Upgrading at PG depends on who you're getting and who you're sacrificing.

Houston may never win a championship with Rafer as their PG. Utah never won one with Stockton as their PG. Phoenix has yet to win one with Steve Nash. Nobody's won with Jason Kidd. It's not that definitive.

Here's one fact, though  - Rafer was good enough to start on a team that won 22 straight games and finish only 2 games out of winning the highly competitive Western Conference. With the addition of Ron Artest, chances are he''ll be starting on an even better team next year.

 Elimination Game 6 Alston was trying valiantly to play through a major injury, and would have been sitting out if he hadn't had the heart of a lion. He was eventually forced out anyway when the injury got even worse.

 Let's see . ..following your logic the next team Deron faced must really suck. He averaged 22.3 points, 11.5 assists in the second round against, ummmm . . .the Lakers.

Oh wait! The Lakers made it to the Finals, didn't they?

How did they do that with Jordan Farmar at point guard? No team could ever win a title with Jordan Farmar, right? Or Rajon Rondo?

Oh . . .wait a minute . . .I think there were some pretty good players besides the point guards on those Boston and LA teams.

You can't have an All-Star at every position, and when you have All-Stars at center, shooting guard, and small forward you're in pretty good shape.
 

Bill Ingram:

 Elimination Game 6 Alston was trying valiantly to play through a major injury, and would have been sitting out if he hadn't had the heart of a lion. He was eventually forced out anyway when the injury got even worse.

 Let's see . ..following your logic the next team Deron faced must really suck. He averaged 22.3 points, 11.5 assists in the second round against, ummmm . . .the Lakers.

Oh wait! The Lakers made it to the Finals, didn't they?

How did they do that with Jordan Farmar at point guard? No team could ever win a title with Jordan Farmar, right? Or Rajon Rondo?

Oh . . .wait a minute . . .I think there were some pretty good players besides the point guards on those Boston and LA teams.

You can't have an All-Star at every position, and when you have All-Stars at center, shooting guard, and small forward you're in pretty good shape.
 

Nice way to sidestep the 6 for 18 game when he wasn't injured.

I never said you need an all star at every postion. That's you putting words in my mouth.

Boston won with a PG who knows his limitaions. He doesn't shoot a good % from outside so he doesn't shoot those shots unless forced. Alston has shot a terrible % every year in his acreer yet he continues to shoot. Rondo has a superior A/to ratio and is a top notch defender.  Rondo would not be my pick to replace Alston on the Rockets.

The Lakers did NOT get to the Finals with Farmar "at POG" that's False. Derek Fisher played over 65% of the PG minutes. Farmar played 17 mpg in the playoffs. If Alston was playing 17 MPG maybe we could talk.

As for Deron int the Second round he went from shooting 53% vs the Rockets to 46% vs ther Lakers and from shooting 60% from 3 VS the Rockets to 44% vs LA. Boston on the other hand had a big + at 4 postions and were barley above even +0.2 at PG.

LA let him shoot well above his season average from the floor an 3. LA heldf him well below. Your comparison is not valid.

I am however glad you decided to Compare LA and Houston. The Lakers had a postive PER differential at every postion except PG. Houston had a positive at 3 postions with a slight - at PF. But they wer ouperformed by -9.3 at PG. LA was outperformed by -5.5. So the difference between LA's sucess and Houston's failure was you guessed it PG play.

So no you don't need an all satr at every postion. You don't need a great PG. You can get by with a Fisher or a Rondo as long as they can hold their own. Houston doesn't hold their own at PG they get smoked. PG and therefore Alston is the weak link on the Rockets team. Its the only positon they routinley get outperformed at in both regular seaon and post seaon.

 I'm happy with Alston when everyone else is healthy - and more importantly, Daryl Morey is happy with Alston.

B-balltm:

T-mac's already relied on to do too much playmaking. Replacing Alston with Derek Fisher would only make that problem bigger. Why do you think Luther Head never started?

Houston wants a player starting beside T-mac that can get the offense started quickly. Rafer fits that bill, plus he's a low-turnover player. Shooting isn't his strength, & I don't expect playing with more scoring options to increase his percentages next year. But hopefully it'll bring his shot attempts down, which is the one area he really hurts us. But as far as getting the other 4 guys involved - there isn't a whole lot you can complain about.

It's funny that people think Rafer's not much of a defender, btw. Ric Adelman, Jeff Van Gundy and Daryl Morey would disagree. But even if we ignore that TLC....Houston's been top3 in the league in defense the past 2 seasons. Who do you think is the reason for that? You say Rafer's a poor defender, so who are all these defensive stalwarts that still manage to make Houston an ELITE defensive squad despite having such a weaklink out there? Battier's the only Rocket to make All-NBA.

Bill Ingram laid it out perfectly. Upgrading at PG depends on who you're getting and who you're sacrificing.

Houston may never win a championship with Rafer as their PG. Utah never won one with Stockton as their PG. Phoenix has yet to win one with Steve Nash. Nobody's won with Jason Kidd. It's not that definitive.

Here's one fact, though  - Rafer was good enough to start on a team that won 22 straight games and finish only 2 games out of winning the highly competitive Western Conference. With the addition of Ron Artest, chances are he''ll be starting on an even better team next year.

I did NOT say Rafer was a POOR defender. I said he was not much of a defender. He's about as effective defeensivley as Steve Nash. Make of that what you will. Some people think Nash is a seive the results don't prove it out. Rafer isn't a Seive but Houston is not a stellar defensive team becuase of Alston. They are stellar in spite of him. Opposing PGs shoot about as well vs houston as they do Vs the Suns. Its Houston's front court that locks down opposing players. They hold opposing PFs way down and are almost as good at locking down Sfs.

Houston's defense is only marginally worse with Alston on the bench -1.5

But when Bobby Jackson is on the floor the Rockets are 8 ppg better on D than when he's off.

Its been proven that a poor shooting mediocre defending bad decsion making player CAN put together a long enough stretch to win a ring. Walker did it in Miami. But its the exception and has never been "maintained" over a long strecth. Alston is what he is. he's not going to change at this point. He's the weak link. I'd hate to see houston defy the odds and stay healthy enough to really go somewhere only to have to depend on Alston. I just don't think he's good enough.

Toolatecrew:

Nice way to sidestep the 6 for 18 game when he wasn't injured.

Toolatecrew:

Boston won with a PG who knows his limitaions. He doesn't shoot a good % from outside so he doesn't shoot those shots unless forced. Alston has shot a terrible % every year in his acreer yet he continues to shoot. Rondo has a superior A/to ratio and is a top notch defender.

Rafer held opposing PGs to a PER of 16.2 last year, and Houston was +1.8 better defensively with him on the floor. Rondo held opposing PGs to a PER of 17.6, and his team was just +1.3 better defensively with him on the floor. Both of these PGs played on the 2 best defensive teams in the league last year.

 Yet you view one as not much of a defender, while the other is top-notch? Might want to review your stat book again.

B-balltm:

Toolatecrew:

Nice way to sidestep the 6 for 18 game when he wasn't injured.

I'm pretty sure Rafer was playing hurt that game. You don't miss the 2 games in the postseason with some minor day-to-day injury.

Toolatecrew:

Boston won with a PG who knows his limitaions. He doesn't shoot a good % from outside so he doesn't shoot those shots unless forced. Alston has shot a terrible % every year in his acreer yet he continues to shoot. Rondo has a superior A/to ratio and is a top notch defender.

Hmm...this is weird. Let's use your favorite way of gauging a player's defensive effectiveness.

Rafer held opposing PGs to a PER of 16.2 last year, and Houston was +1.8 better defensively with him on the floor. Rondo held opposing PGs to a PER of 17.6, and his team was just +1.3 better defensively with him on the floor. Both of these PGs played on the 2 best defensive teams in the league last year.

 Yet you view one as not much of a defender, while the other is top-notch? Might want to review your stat book again.

Fair enough. I will not use PER in evaluation of Rondo being a good defender and Alston being not much of one. The numbers don't support that .

Doesn't change the fact that Alston was badley outperformed by the oppsing PG in the playoffs while Rondo held even. Doesn't change the fact that PG is the only positon where Houston has a deficit while Boston PGs hold "even" Doesn't change the fact that Alston is a terrible shooter who shoots too much anyways.

Alston was 63rdh among PGs in FG%. Yet he's 10th in  attempts. A guy like Rondo is 5ht in % but only 29th in attempts. What it says is not that Rondo is a "good shooter" but that he understands what is a makeable shot and what is not. Alston even at his age and experience does not grasp that and never has. He takes shots he has little chace of making them takes a fair amount if them and always has. This is a guy who's running your offense and its ovious his decsion making is not good and never will be.

Lets just assume that I'm wrong and that Alston on average is no worse a defender than Rondo. It doesn't change the fact that he's the weak link on the rockets, that he's a terrible shooter or that he's in the lower tier of PGs in terms of A/to ratio. I think its an overlooked fact  he actually has relativley poor judgment in terms of passing. A/to ratio doesn't really illustrate this.

His assits may be lower becuase much of the offense runs through TMAc. Turnover can result from many things like offensive fouls or dribbling out of bounds. But 82 games.com measures bad PASSES.

His assit to bad pass ratio is 3.5. Thats terrible for a PG its around 100 in the entire NBA down in the Travis outlaw area. His pass rating is a 7 once again in the bottom of Starting PGs (and before you bring it up yes I realize Kidds a/bad pass ratio sucks but his overall pass ratio is great) I'm not just concentrating on one stat here. Alston threw 11 bad passes last year DOUBLE what Rondo did.  The point is that there is overwhelming evidence both observation and statistical that Alston although he handels the ball a fair bit in a PG role makes BAD decsions on a regular basis on what passes to throw and what shots to take. I'm looking not just at ratios and fg% but in volume.

I fully realize that a guy like Fisher has an equal pass rating to Alston. But he threw 1/2 as many bad passes. He does not get as many assists but he plays his role and doesn't try to do things that have a high failure rate. He also plays with a ball handeling swingman but he simply doesn't make as many bad decsions nor does Rondo. Fisher's efg% is better than Alstons and he also takes fewer attempts. He doesn't take as many bad shots.

This is not to say Alson is the worst PG in the NBA . He isn't. But he's being portrayed as "solid" when the reality is that he's very undependable. He's a PG who makes a lot of bad decisons.

Toolatecrew:

I am however glad you decided to Compare LA and Houston. The Lakers had a postive PER differential at every postion except PG. Houston had a positive at 3 postions with a slight - at PF. But they wer ouperformed by -9.3 at PG. LA was outperformed by -5.5. So the difference between LA's sucess and Houston's failure was you guessed it PG play.

Rafer wasn't the reason for the huge differential at PG. He actually outperformed the opposing PG when HE was on the court. It was Bobby Jackson and  Aaron Brooks who got dominated by the opposing PG when they were out there, thus creating that large differential.

PG play was also their only negative for the entire season its not like its some isolated incident.  

I don't think "outperfomed" really deserves to be in bold when he had a 19 per and the opposition had an 18.9 per

The rockets offense was worse with him on the court than off. Their defense was worse with him on than off. So he basically sucked. He just didn't suck as bad as Jackson. Doesn't change the fact PG is the weak link on the rockets. Was the weak link all year and is still the weakest link. Sucking less than your backup doesn't make you good.  

Toolatecrew:

Alston was 63rdh among PGs in FG%. Yet he's 10th in  attempts. A guy like Rondo is 5ht in % but only 29th in attempts. What it says is not that Rondo is a "good shooter" but that he understands what is a makeable shot and what is not. Alston even at his age and experience does not grasp that and never has. He takes shots he has little chace of making them takes a fair amount if them and always has. This is a guy who's running your offense and its ovious his decsion making is not good and never will be.

You keep raving about how poor Rafer's decision-making is. You don't seem to grasp that Rafer's JOB is to take those 3-pointers. JVG has always taken the blame when critics get on Rafer for a bad shooting night, because it's Rafer's role to shoot when the D leaves him open and the ball is swung back around to him. It's either that, or cause the team to have to force up an even lower percentage shot by re-setting the offense with little time left on the shot clock. It's not the most ideal role, but it's just how you use a player like Rafer.

But like I said before, Rafer's shooting efficiency isn't why he starts.

Terrible shooter. Has been with every coach and every system he's ever played in.

Not the best of 2nd tier PGs. Rockets mgt would happily dump him for the likes of Calderron, Billups or even Hinric or Mo Williams given the opportunity.

I'm done with Alston now.

Probably the rockets biggest issue this year is the fact the Olympics are in China. If they weren't Yao probably wouldn't even be playing. But he is. The Chinese team sucks and has no chance of a medal but for national pride he'll be out there pounding on bones and joints that need as much time to heal as possible. Artest or no Artest if YAo gets hurt they are sunk. In fact this year is probaly worse than last year becuase they have esentially no backup to get them through a 20 game stretch. If he gets hurt this summer they are truly screwed becuase they need a training camp and the beginning of the season to integrate artest and try to build enough chemistry by year end to go far in the playoffs. It takes chemistry and a whole lot of luck even with a group of guys like the Spurs have. With a kook like Artest its even tougher. Getting him was a no brainer. I truly hope that they have good health and get a chance to haver a shot. That's what I'd like to see. But I wouldn't bet my own money on it.

Never bet on sports. Well, unless you're a ref who can influence the outcome - then it's a sure thing. But that's not us.

Yao would still be playing in China even if it weren't the Olympics - and you're right - they're terrible even with him. The Chinese team played in the Vegas summer league last summer and they got walked each and every time - by competition that ranks slightly below the D-League.
 

 Thank God!!!

 I thought for sure he was coming to Denver, and we just couldn't handle one more head case.  Artest is very good....usually, but man what a negative influence he can be.  I am sooooo glad we opted for the continued development of Kleiza and JR.  Those two have REAL potential and both will easily surpass Artest this year.

Unfortunately we will still suck....without a PG and C.
 

He had a good relationship with Rick Adelman in Sacramento . . .something the Rockets are counting on rekindling in Houston. If they can't . . .he's gone after this year and he cost them two draft picks and opened up cap space. It's a win-win for Houston.